• Spent some time over the weekend mucking about with some old WIPs from last year...experimenting with new ways of applying paint to the 3D models. I opened up my old template for the Razorback and had another go at Ray Wetmore's P47D-10. It's still a bit rough around the edges, but I'm focusing on paint fade / splotchiness, rather than excessive amounts of chipping and dirt...

    Have a look (click on the pics for full size):

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    Ultimately, the goal will be to add this kind of effect to all the new skins I turn out...I'm thinking a revisit to the F4U template is in order once I get this sucker buttoned up.

    Let me know what you think wink



  • Hey man, good to see some new stuff from you smile

    I?m also working sometimes with this kind of painting, the problem is that it?s often looking like spraying with white paint over the basic colours, particulary when the basic colours are very dark ones.

  • Hey D & C!

    Yeah, I've been away for too bad! frown

    I find it's easier to take your base color, lighten or darken it a few shades and apply random splotches on multiple layers over your base color with the old FBS weathering brushes. I found through trial and error this weekend that using texture overlays on the random splotches and reducing the opacity goes a long way towards giving the skin that 'worn' look without getting excessive with chips and dirt. Also adding 'noise' filter effects to some of the layers works pretty well also...I think the 'paint' layer set in that template is around 35 or 40 layers! What can I gotta go big, or go home wink



  • Couple more shots of another WIP.... smile

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    Keeping a sharp look out for "Eagle Eye" Rudi Jaeger wink



  • Hi Keith! ..nice to see you wielding a brush again. Eagle Eyes eh? ..I only wish these days.

    Well, I did take a good look at the Razorback yesterday, but was hesitant to say anything because I was not certain if it was the map, the plane, or both... but they seem a bit overly saturated to my eyes, sort of like the screenshots that some folks try to transform into illustrations.

    But since you posted the pony pics, I can see that P-51's version of OD green is much more what I'm accustomed to. My 'rule of thumb' for an od airplane, is if we could transfer the same shade of green to an M4 Sherman and it still looks good, then we got it right.. or pretty close to it. Fortunately, there are so many variations of od, that we have a little 'wiggle room' in the absence of any color references. IMO, it would look better if you could get the Pony's shade of od onto the Razorback. But then again, I'm not sitting on a reference library of color samples either; just going on my military experience being around od paint.

    Other than that, I think the P-47 looks great; nice crisp details, and no technical flaws that I can see. And a nice touch with the powder stains on the end of the barrel tubes.. that's the way they all should look IMO. Too many skins feature powder stains from extended barrels on the leading edge of the wings and it just looks wrong. If the muzzles are flush with the wings then okay, but I'm not going to believe that extended muzzles are going to cast powder burns on the wing at 250mph+ before the residue is dispersed into the slipstream. Be nice to have a P-47, a wind tunnel, and some ammo, to do some testing eh?

    And now for the Mustang. Not sure why, but I seemed to spot more stuff; Maybe because it features more metal and brighter colors (easier to see details), and I'm familiar with the skin's layout. Anyway, here goes...


    1. Tail light; IIRC, the portion on the rudder should be a fairing, hence yellow, while the piece extending beyond remains white to represent the lens cap. Ooops, wait a minute... I just checked the port side view and it appears correct. Either it's the lighting, or the port side got the 'treatment and the starboard side didn't (?).

    2. Red stripe at the wing root sort of 'jumps out' due to the warping, but I'm sure it's a problem area due to the model and there might not be a whole lot that can be done to fix it. I recall Canon doing a nice version many moons ago, which might offer some guidance for the stripe.. but it may have the same issue; I'm not at my sim-pc so I can't check on it.

    3. A small piece of rudder and aileron rib/shading is extending onto the trim tabs. IIRC, the tabs were smooth(?)

    4. Shadow for trailing edge of hz stab is straight, while the stabalizer has a curve near the root.

    5. It's a tight space to work in, but I think if you place just a small dot of highlight on the nav-light lenses, it will lend more of a glassy appearance. Although I do like the subdued colors; I see too many skins where they are lit up like a neon sign, which isn't very tactical IMO. If I want my nav-lights turned on, then I'd rather do it with a key command, since we have the abilty for sim-generated lights.

    6. Fuel filler stencils: Not sure, but you might check if the buzz codes were painted over the stencils, or vice-versa. It's one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" situations.

    Note: I could not give a fair eval on the belly due to the angle (too dark to pick out the details). Maybe flip 'em over into the sun next time(?).

    Lastly, and I can't say this is any sort of skinning flaw.. but did you notice that the bore on the inner .50 cal muzzle looks more like a 20mm compared to the others?


    1. Overall colors/shading are consistant and appear historically correct. Metal looks great; don't touch it!

    2. Yellow rudder: At first I didn't think it looked good with all the od 'bleed-thru', but in reality, it probably didn't look good either. Simply due to the fact that yellow is such a tempermental color to apply over a dark surface (OD Green); it usually takes several coats to achieve a uniform appearance.. unless the surface was primered in a lighter color first. So after some thought, I think you've achieved a really nice touch with this. I only hope that folks realize that this is intentional and not an oversight.. perhaps a note for the readme(?).

    3. Shadow intensity is spot-on.. as well as the highlights.

    4. Weathering is realistic. Nice touch with the concrete runway wheel splatter (tire skid residue) over the tail surface. Powder stains are believeable.. nice transition effect and not overly done. Again, I would like to have seen the belly-side to check the ejection ports. The M2's are recoil operated, so there is a lot more 'powder crud' going through the barrel than ever goes out the ejection ports with the spent shell casings. Hence a lot less, or even no powder stains from the ports. Although for skinning purposes, I do like to see just a touch of staining on the ports, just to illustrate their function.

    5. Alignment on nose section. There's a lot of geometry happening in that area, and you've achieved a flawless execution with all the seam-spanning. Excellent job!

    So there you have it mate. I hope this little critique will be helpful. I may have overly elaborated on a few topics, but if any new skinners are reading, I want them to understand the reasoning behind some of this stuff.

    I'm really looking forward to seeing these roll out to the tarmac.



    Keith, out of curiosity, I went searching for the umpteenth time for photos featuring actual powder stains, and stumbled upon some photos showing the muzzle ports. You crafty devil, you got it right! The inboard ma-deuce is recessed (just over a cartridge length) to allow for the belt feed, and hence the port appears larger, just as it does on your skin. Well done mate!

    ...OMG, I wonder how many existing Pony skins we just screwed up? :80:

    All the best! ~ Rudi

  • ...OMG, I wonder how many existing Pony skins we just screwed up? :80:



    Okay, I usually don't respond to my own posts unless I've been drinking; and I certainly try not to post pics of my own stuff in someone elses' thread.. but regarding the muzzle ports, I think we're all safe. Reason being, when I did this skin a few years back, I'm certain I did not consider the muzzle recess, yet it's depicted on the skin. And since I built my own template, I'm thinking the recess is actually part of the 3D model.. either that, or quite a fantastic accident. Sorry I don't have the sim available right now to confirm this.

    Anyway, that's the good news for all us skinners; unfortunately we may have yet screwed up a few scale modelers' ambitions...


    Sorry for the sidebar interruption; if I do it again I'm going to send myself a pm to "knock it off!". And now, back to our regularly scheduled topic :crazy:

  • LOL...I knew I could count on you, RJ!

    The recessed .50 cal barrel is just a 'happy accident' that Oleg and his modelers got right way back in the day (shock, horror) smile. I wish I could take credit for it, but alas...I'm not that clever! The mapping for the P51 textures is another story ('s still better than the P38 mapping :suicide: ). I'm updating my install of IL2 to UP3RC4 + DBW currently, so no in game shots to share right now...however there is always PrtScn & Photoshop.

    As for the P47...

    From what I've seen of color pics of the planes from Wetmore's unit, they were painted more of Green/Brown OD than a Brown/Green OD...I could be wrong, but I remember reading that the shade of OD that was used varied from factory to factory. I did my best to match it as close as possible to paint chips that RDDR sent me. What's odd, is that on the template itself...(just click on the pics below and it should enlarge them to 1360 x 768):

    1340136462 390 FT1518 Template 03

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    ...the paint appears more green than brown. In game, depending on lighting/weather etc, it can appear more brown than green. So, I've got to solve that little issue! for the P51:

    The trim tab on the rudder is actually a little 'bump out' on the 3D model. In Emel's template, he created that little bit of detail on the rudder to keep it from looking like a wart on the rudder smile. I do see what you mean about the ribbing overlapping over that bit of detail though. I'll get that fixed up.

    1340136836 390 FT1518 Template 02

    As far as the OD for 'Millie G', it's another one of those variant issues. I'm guessing on the color for this I've seen other skinners make the 1/2 OD scheme look too green. From color pics I've seen from this unit, it looks more brown than green to me...obviously it's subject to interpretation.

    The mapping on the wing root for the P51 is a you'll see. I had to do quite a bit of subtle warping to get the red pinstripe to be consistent across the fuselage and over the wing root. To make matters worse, it's broken into two chunks that stretch differently (maybe not saying that right...but they get distorted if you take the common sense approach).

    1340137379 390 FT1518 Template 01

    I've seen other skinners pull the pinstripe further back past the wing root (which solves the mapping issue, but it's not accurate), or they make them so thick that the odd stretchiness is barely noticeable. I think I've gotten about as close to 'accurate' as I can and still able to live with the end result. It just reminds me of when I did the FW190D-9 ammo cowling variants...there are 5 of them, which one a plane had depended on when and where it was built. Having to warp / stretch lines for the 5 piece cowlings was a nightmare! Funny thing is, I still haven't made a Dora that uses that type of cowling smile.

    Anyhow...I'll post more once I get all my new goodies installed. I'll go back over your suggestions and make the changes...hopefully I'll have some new in-game shots to share soon!

    Thanks Rudi! I know I can always depend on you to take a close look at my skins work. It's great to be back here with you guys :drinks:



  • Ahhh, those are rivets on the Pony's trim tab! ..looked different in the screenshot (cleans reading glasses). And I see what you mean about the pinstripe; looks like a real pain.

    After viewing the 47's template pics, I think my comments about being overly saturated, were much to do with the map in the screenshot. And like you said, the lighting conditions have much to do with it. I think the color looks fine on the template pics. Which map did you use to stage the screenshots?

    I see some exceptional work in both templates, from all contributors. I hope anyone else reading, will take the time to give these pics a good look. Like the handiwork of many of the artists featured here at A&A, this is the kind of quality I'm talking about whenever I mention spending an evening just cycling through skin files to admire the craftsmanship.

    Great work Keith, keep 'em coming!

  • Which map did you use to stage the screenshots?

    I see some exceptional work in both templates, from all contributors. I hope anyone else reading, will take the time to give these pics a good look. Like the handiwork of many of the artists featured here at A&A, this is the kind of quality I'm talking about whenever I mention spending an evening just cycling through skin files to admire the craftsmanship.

    Great work Keith, keep 'em coming!


    The map is one of the old 'Channel Maps' that CannonUK did a zillion years ago...I had the time set at 1600 and I don't remember the weather conditions. I wish I could tell you for certain, but I aborted my old install of IL2 / UP3 and just upgraded to UP3RC4 with DBW. So much nicer!

    Thanks for the compliments mate! As I'm going through all the improvements that have been made for UP over the last year or so, plus getting Claymore's 190 mod 'to do' list just seems to be getting longer!



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