Hi Mick,
thank you very much for keeping us update with new mods. Honestly i say
the medal has always two sides: no doubt a better looking 3D-model - but permanently outdated skins because of this. Guess which one isn't the skinner's favourite...

ATB
Armin

... I quite understand you Armin, but may be there is some small hope that, with the help of our skinner friends and all the non skinner guys out there that know how to operate PhotoShop, PaintShopPro or Gimp, we will somehow be able to fix this some day ...

I have already discussed this with Chris today ...

But may be also this is a totally silly idea ...

Mick and I have been talking now for several days and I do wish I was able to help. The bottom line is I don't have the experience. I have mentioned who I believe does and I have just thought of someone else. My friend
Andrew...aka Greif.
If you are not sure how to contact him I can arrange that for you Mick

This is similar to what happened with Japancat's Zeros, where all previous zero skins were rendered obsolete and wiped out in a stroke.

I love Japancat's models though. He has improved the 3D and it is more historically accurate. However, it is also a big task to re-build all 109 templates and skins!

In the end Japancat's Zeros are so good I could not live without them. New skins are out there, although we don't have any yet.

It could be to everyone's advantage to embrace the new 109 models and be the first to produce new skins for it. But again to have all those skins rendered obsolete is going to cause division.

Already at SAS this specific issue lead to such division between Japancat and Barnsey12, creator of the 'Better Pilots' mod, that Barnsey left SAS altogether!

Fortunately at A&A we are all good friends who know each other well enough to throw in pros and cons and discuss a subject from various angles without emotions boiling over.

Working on stuff here I know that we all just point out what we feel is right at the time and never fear the consequences! I always learn something from you guys and I can take being slapped around a bit (I'm not the only ice hockey player here).

...well I had to leave my (probably silly) idea aside for a little while, because I am currently beta testing two different very time consuming things for friends ...

Please guys, from now on bear in mind that I am no skinner myself ...

My (silly ?) idea is (was) :

Since JapanCat's new 3D is so much better and that the (apparently) only bug is a messed up external view cockpit, wouldn't it be possible to make a new "generic" cockpit skin, and then with the help of all those guys out there who are not necessarily skinners themselves but know how to use PhotoShop or PaintShop or Gimp, little by little modify (copy and paste the new "generic cockpit part") dozens of already existing Bf109 skins (only the top right part, where the cockpit is on a skin)

It looks like the bug "only" consists in duplicated parts, like the seat straps (now duplicated on the lower right side of the pit) gauges (now also on the right side, where the radio switches normally are) but also the head protection armor is now where the 20 mm gun cover is, and the Revi block that has turned white (see screens)

I quite understand Armin's choice for ex, as a skinner himself he prefers not to use JC's somewhat "destructive" 3D mod, and there are also guys like me who prefer the new 3D, mainly because we normally spend most of our time in the cockpit when we fly, so the bug can't be seen from inside your own plane when you take a look at your wingmen, but the new external 3D improvements are obvious when you look at them ...

It is because I needed an expert skinner view that I first asked Chris by PM, and of course there is absolutely no poleMick (... sorry, couldn't resist ...) whatever in my request (Simon I don't think JC's new 3D is the very reason why Barnesy left the SAS building ...)

I am going to ask my friend Claymore about it, because he is a former skinner himself and has now become a modder with 3D skills, because what I (we ?) need to know is, do we need a totally new template or just a new "mapping skin" such as the one here enclosed (MB152-based upon the Ki100) ...?

I am quite aware that the Bf 109 must be the most skinned plane in IL2, and by far, so it is of course out of question to bin all those fantastic skins we have, I am only trying to keep them all and find a way to "slightly" (remember, no skinner myself...) modify them so as to fix that "minor" cockpit bug ...

THX for reading me through guys, and please tell me if this a silly idea, that would save us a lot of time and energy ...

WITHOUT JC's new 3D:



WITH JC's new 3D:



Seat straps, Revi and gauges bug :



New mapping for MB152 (see top right part, is this what we need ??)

Good points and good pics Mick, illustrating that JC's work has resulted in much more than just a small improvement.

... well, case closed guys ...

I asked Claymore about it, sent him the relevant files and he told me there was nothing that could be done, except ask JC to modify his work in order to respect the hundreds of already existing skins, he even posted at SAS, and here is JC's reply ...

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,29193.msg337342/boardseen.html#new

Sorry for bothering you with it ...

... well guys, it looks like thanks to Claymore's latest post the situation might improve in a near future ...

So I am glad it eventually wasn't a waste of time on my part ...

Thx Mick, your comment a SAS is absolutely correct

"... well I really hope you can fix that JapanCat, because our skinner friends just cannot modify hundreds of skins, especially because the Bf109 is probably the most skinned plane in IL2 ... "

live is to short to do all the work again and again - at least for me

Good news!